The idea of a new multilateral bank to help fund defence spending in Europe has shifted to the fore in recent weeks.
European leaders are understood to be discussing the idea this week and a plan for one could be announced soon.
Rob Murray, a former British army officer, is the person who first came up with an idea while working at Nato in 2018. He joined the podcast this week to discuss how it would work, the three things it would do that no other institution could do as well, and who would be part of it.
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